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Luckily I got this and a Peaso for about $30 but when I opened it I yelled and cursed. This looked like shadowing in the ebay ad.
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While the surface of the blade is just tarnished no rust I am worried that the temper is ruined. Is there any way to tell before I devote any time or money on it?
Advice needed/wanted
Thanks
Also the Peaso is in good shape so it is not a total loss. They both need scales.
I think that W&B is quite possibly shot... the only way to know for sure is to set a bevel, and see if it holds. Looks like it may have been heated up at a high temp, IMO.
I'm no expert but i'd say it's pooched:(
Sux I really wanted that thing to be nice......
I think i can say sorry for your loss
and now im wondering how someone managed that heat pattern
Looks like the temper is shot... but if it didn't lose a lot of carbon, could a guy re temper that?
I don't know a lot about tempering but if any one on this web site is a blacksmith or if you have access to one they maybe able to draw the temper and make the blade right again. Just a thought.
Unless I am mistaken, you cannot re-temper. Once the temper is shot, the only fix is to completely reheat-treat, from what I understand. However, I do not know how viable a solution that is...Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
if its thick enough not to warp it could be doneQuote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
not counting guessing on steel propertys
and i would think it would have to be pretty close to wedge shape
Disclaimor: i have not tryed my hand at hardening but ive read a few treads here
there you go get a guys hopes up and then take them away.... lol Seriously though tell me more about re tempering.
its re hardening and if i search the forge i may get you a better answerQuote:
Originally Posted by firefighter
or just do a search.
Looking now......
You are right I misspoke I believe it would be called annealing or normalizing.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to hone and see how it does.......
Sadness....
The only way to learn anything is to hone it up.
At least the seller did not buff it out to hide the issue.
If it has been wrecked you can try a gaggle of things
but first see if it will take an edge.
When a blade is heat treated it is not ground to final shape till later so as to prevent warpage. It may not be a good idea with your blade.
I don't know if it could be done with a razor, but people do it with tools (re-tempering, that is). You have to harden first - heat to a certain colour then quench quickly in some suitable liquid, then draw the temper by heating to another colour and letting the piece cool slowly.
Hardened items are very brittle - tempering (annealing) is reducing the hardness - softening it a bit, if you like.
Tools are prone to crack at the hardening stage - old hands used to "beat" the metal about a bit as it was supposed to reduce the risk of cracking (?) - but I dont suppose you'd want to beat the razor with a hammer while it was hot, as the angles would change. There is a risk of warping, too.
Regards,
Neil
This link is interesting. I believe you are seeing
oxide colors.
TEMPERING
If this was heated by a buffer one could see what the
likely upper bounds of the temperature might have been.
Then look up the effect on the steel. As thin as
the edge is it would have air cooled quickly.
Regardless hone it and strop it up and see how it responds.
So Tom before I go deep into that article are you thinking there may be hope for the blade?
If those are heat lines (which they look like to me) you are probably screwed... if it's something else you may have a snowballs chance... the only way to be sure is to hone
If it got hot enough to change to that color, it got hot enough to ruin the heat treating of the blade (two stage process involving first hardening, then tempering, or drawing as some say) .... anyway long story short is that if it was a heat problem I believe you are screwed.
Only one way to find out... ever honed before?:D
Not yet.... lol I'm still trying to figure out if I am going to love or hate shaving this way. Waiting for the last piece of the puzzle.... a T. Miller strop hope to have it by Saturday. Might treat myself to my first shave with my Red Man Sunday morning. Here's a link to my recent aqusitions....
http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...ok-plunge.html
I may just leave the W&B for a little while. Or I may just send the four worker blades to Bob let him hone the three and maybe restore the W&B if he see's that it is worth it.
For right now though I'm gonna go with the Red Man and see how this works out.
I am thinking there is a chance and that a trip throughQuote:
Originally Posted by firefighter
the honing process will quickly tell you what the verdict is.
The annealing/tempering of old blades did vary over wide ranges
and this one while over tempered may prove easy to hone and
strop. You may not get 500 shaves out of it between honing
but you may find that the shaves you get are good ones.
#begin-opinion#
One thing that a strop does after pulling the edge straight
is work harden the edge. Work hardening may compensate
for a less hard temper and still yield a good shave for your face.
The only way to test this is to hone and strop it up.
Wipe it with some bleach, alcohol a couple of times.
Rinse well in hot tap water then hone and strop it up....
No need to sand it or buff the blue off the surface.
Do lightly oil it, the alcohol and bleach will remove
any protection from rust that it had.
#end-impossible-to-prove-opinion#
If it is too screwed up buff it up and take it to
the next honemaster gathering and start a pool
on who can get it the sharpest :)
There are always beginners that want a
blade to practice honing and stropping with.
Buzz a "XXX-temper-busted-XXX" warning
on it and donate it to a beginner to use
then pass along.
Heck what does a soak at dry ice temperature do?
Wrap the dry ice in the want ads then wrap that
and the blade in the Sunday paper and place in
an ice chest and check it in a week. I guess I
could look up what this might do but I like playing
with dry ice and need an excuse to buy a block.
It is also possible to try to re-harden and temper it.
While that is a long shot, a sack of charcoal or a
hand torch and a bit of homework might make it
possible. -- and luck -- I did say long shot.
where are you located firefighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del1r1um
Tampa FL....
Why do you ask. I should probably update my profile while I'm on the subject.
Off to do that now. :)
Yikes!!! What a shame.Sorry about your loss.:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackstangal
Meh... it cost me like $15 I really like the style though it it ends up being no good I gotta find another one like it.
I'm going to take a chance on it. I'll sand & polish it up and get new scales. If it doesn't hone up well I'll just remove the scales and chalk it up to a learning expierience. I'll let you guys know what happens.
Thanks for all the advice and opinions guys.
How thick is the blade?
I can tell you for certain the blade got too hot, and the temper is ruined...
If you are interested in rescaling, and the blade has enough body left, you might be able to get another heat treat out of that blade, but you have to use a low oxygen fire like propane, or re heat treat in a molten salt bath...
and there is a pretty good chance the blade will warp or crack...
If it was me, I'd go ahead and do another HT, what do you have to lose?
also with the fresh HT, you can draw a harder temper on it, and have a blade that will stay sharp for a very long time.
It looks like a scale donor to me.
Judging from the way the color changes from browns to blues, I would say that poor thing had a bigger blade, and somebody attempted to (as you guys call it) breadknife it, and overheated it. Firefighter, if it doesnt hone up for you, I have an ABS Master in my backyard, who I can ask to experiment with rehardening and tempering (you would need a master to not warp the thin blade) If you try to do it with a torch, the heat will be uneven and wave it out for sure!
